Talk:Military-Grade Rounds
Total Amount "In total however, there are 1,391 that can be found in various locations and on enemies." Is this a fact? Sadist King 19:16, July 22, 2010 (UTC)Sadist King No Shit Sherlock For the PC has anyone actually got this achivement?. I followed a guide off Youtube...and it didnt happen for me. Metro Tunnel Rat 22:28, August 13, 2010 (UTC) Would this game have been more realistic if MGRs were a different caliber? I hear that in the original novel, Artyom uses an AKM, a modernized AK-47 that still uses the older Russian 7.62x39mm rounds. That got me thinking; why aren't MGRs in this game 7.62x39mm rounds instead of the newer 5.45x39mm rounds? The older 7.62x39mm rounds would have some advantages in Metro 2033's universe, detailed below: #While they are shorter-ranged than 5.45x39mm rounds, this isn't much of a problem against mutants since most of them have to get within hand-to-hand distance you to do any damage. Most of the time you're just shooting them at very close range anyhow. #The Russians still maintain huge stockpiles of the older ammunition, since they never really threw anything away. #The bigger bullets used by 7.62x39mm rounds translate to more stopping power against mutants--there's a reason why 7.62x39mm rounds are favoured over 5.45x39mm rounds for hunting animals as large as deer or bigger--and I presume that 5.45x39mm rounds would be likewise inefficient against the mutants of Metro 2033, many of which are tougher than human beings. #It would be very simple to change the ingame arsenal to fit the caliber change. The Kalash (actually an AK-74M) could become an AKM or the more modern AK-103 (which looks very similar to the AK-74M but uses the older 7.62x39mm round). The developers wouldn't even have had to invent and design the fictional Kalash 2012, since there is already a Russian bullpup firearm that uses the older round--the OC-14-4A Groza, seen in the STALKER game series. The VSV already uses a different barrel from its original chambering in 9x39mm, so you could just handwave that the ingame version uses 7.62mm barrel instead. The Bastard could just become a little larger to handle the fatter rounds. #It would make the extreme crosshair bloom on the Bastard realistic. The 5.45x39mm round has very little recoil, and you can see this in action if you search for youtube videos demonstrating how people using 5.45x39mm weapons can fire them easily one-handed. Thus it is very unrealistic that the Bastard would become that inaccurate over sustained fire if it used 5.45x39mm rounds. 7.62x39mm rounds have much more recoil, and would make the inaccuracy of the Bastard when firing long bursts more realistic. Does anyone else think that MGRs would have been more realistic and more effective if they were 7.62x39mm rounds instead? Mazryonh 11:24, August 13, 2011 (UTC) :I strongly disagree. :* Current Federation service rifle is AK-74 that uses 5.45, "VSV" is called VSK-94 and really is a 9A-91 assault rifle which is indeed chambered for 5.45x39mm caliber, amongst others. :* Groza-1 (7.62x39mm) was made for army spec ops and Groza-4 (9x39mm) was made for MVD (Which governs police), it's also rare and OC-14 is not specifically comfortable to use. It's not ambidextrous, and there is a long list of problems bullpup causes. Plus STALKER comparisons. :* Bastard is firing from the open bolt with no fancy gas pistons for compensation, which means full recoil right into your shoulder which, paired with a short barrel, results in what is most commonly refered to as "HOLY CRAP I CAN'T HOLD THIS THING ON TARGET IN FULL AUTO". It's also home-made from scrap metal. What do you expect? :* 7.62 weapons do exist in metro universe, but developers picked 5.45. Word of god. :The end. : 12:32, August 13, 2011 (UTC) ::Well said Komodo. The Bastard firing the 7.62 would not be realistic in the slightest. Smokey McPott 13:31, August 13, 2011 (UTC) ::"STALKER comparisons"? Weren't those present right from the moment this game was announced? The biggest elements of the STALKER universe that people can name are dangerous radiation, Eastern Bloc weaponry, mutants, anomalies, and stalkers. All of those elements are also present in Metro 2033's universe, and it doesn't help that 4A Games was formed by a splinter group of GSC Gameworld, the original developers of the STALKER game series. I don't think fans of this game are complaining that "this game should be more like STALKER" or the like, so this is more or less a non-issue. : ::I knew that 5.45x39mm is the standard service caliber for the Russian military ingame, but they still maintain stocks of the older 7.62x39mm rounds (otherwise, why would they go through all the trouble to make the AK-103?). It's obvious that 5.45x39mm was optimized for killing human beings and was not intended for use against animals--something I believe the Metro dwellers would appreciate since it would take much more 5.45x39mm rounds to kill mutants larger than Howlers or Lurkers than 7.62x39mm rounds. They would probably conserve their 5.45x39mm ammunition for use against human opponents since it is more accurate, pierces armour better, and has more effective range compared to the older round. : ::The Groza isn't really that implausible; the developers could just say that D6 had a cache of them ready for use (no NPC other than Miller is seen using the Kalash 2012, so the Groza could be equally rare). Ambidexterity sadly isn't valued in most bullpup designs, since most armed forces with bullpup service rifles just force their personnel to train to shoot right-handed anyway. And comfort was (and is) not a priority for Russian weapons designers. : ::And open-bolt weapons can be perfectly serviceable--the Israeli Uzi submachine gun was the most popular and best-selling firearm in its class before the German MP5 replaced it. It was also fairly accurate for its class despite being open-bolt and lacking a muzzle brake. Besides, the 5.45x39mm round was purposely designed to have even less recoil than the 5.56x45mm NATO round, which itself has low enough recoil that it can be fired comfortably from pistol-sized firearms (such as the Taurus Raging 223 revolver). That's why I thought the Bastard having such recoil would only be realistic with a higher-powered cartridge. Its extreme muzzle flash (due to the lack of a flash suppressor) is realistic, however. : ::GSC Gameworld did better than 4A Games by releasing the SDK for STALKER: Call of Pripyat. It's unlikely that 4A Games will do something similar anytime soon since it has to cater for both the Xbox360 and PC gaming crowds, but if it does, changing the 5.45x39mm weapons to 7.62x39mm caliber would be a change I would make for the sake of plausibility. Mazryonh 20:24, August 13, 2011 (UTC) :::* Both games sharing the same genre and having unrelated plots is fine. Metro copying weapons selection from Stalker is bad. Groza appeared in what... Five games in total so far? Kind of hard to say it's just a coincidence. :::* Word of god > fan wank. :::* Ditto. :::* Ditto. :::* They never planned to release an SDK. 4A games released retouched screenshots of a hammer editor for source games as an April fools day joke. There is a fan-made set of tools to mod the game though. ::: 22:51, August 13, 2011 (UTC)